Episode notes
Most crypto exchanges are built like casinos: they chase the next hot token, prediction market, or trading product. Relai is building a different category—a savings brand for people who want to accumulate Bitcoin, hold it in self-custody, and build wealth over the long run. Julian Liniger explains why serving patient savers requires a different product, message, and business model.
The conversation also explores why rising living costs are pushing Europeans to rethink ordinary savings, and why the temptation to get rich quickly can drive people toward momentum trading and leverage. Julian makes the case for a longer time horizon: Bitcoin savings is less about chasing the next move and more about consistently building a position through changing market conditions.
Supporting context includes Relai's MiCA compliance journey, where regulatory overhead is costly but can also raise the bar for smaller competitors. Julian also discusses the company's self-custody model and reports more than 100,000 users holding over 20,000 BTC in their own wallets—not under Relai management. The episode covers how a Bitcoin-only company can earn revenue through services around long-term ownership while keeping the savings proposition at the center.
Timestamps:
00:01 — Europe's Cost of Living Squeeze
03:11 — Why Europeans Still Don't Get Bitcoin
07:37 — High Time Preference & Get-Rich-Quick
10:31 — Bitcoin Needs Patience Again
10:54 — AI Hype vs Bitcoin as Savings
14:58 — Bitcoin Is Where You Keep Your Winnings
21:42 — Leverage, Treasury Cos & Risk
23:46 — Relai Private Loans in Europe
29:03 — MiCA: Overhead and Moat
33:11 — Bitcoin Savings vs Casino Exchanges
35:26 — 100k Users, 20k+ BTC Self-Custody
37:49 — Retail App vs Relai Private
40:00 — Self-Custody Phone Wallet
42:58 — Seven-Figure Raise in a Bear Market
45:12 — AI for Building and Securing Relai
50:00 — Living Costs Drive Bitcoin Search
Links:
https://x.com/relai_app
Stephan Livera links:
Follow me on X: @stephanlivera
